https://shows.acast.com/between-the-stools/episodes/a-queen-and-a-duchess
Introit: Theme from ‘The Tudors’ by Trevor Morris [excerpt]
Welcome to Between The Stools on 19th March 2023. This is the second service in our history year, which will run until January. Last month, we thought about Mary Queen of Scots; during Lent, we are taking a wife of Henry VIII each week (but not in order) and we will be with two other British royal women of the sixteenth century again today. We’ll spend much of 2023 with such characters, although not exclusively.
You may ask why there aren’t more men… I feel on the whole more of a draw towards women, who are often left out of history. These women aren’t unknown, it’s more reframing how they are viewed. I also struggle to find many men of that era whom I wish to spend time with. But there is a more important reason why I’m focussing on the feminine this year.
An obvious special birthday boy this year who you might think I would choose, given my Suffolk connections, is Thomas Wolsey, the cardinal from Ipswich. They’re proud of him – I’m unsure I am. It is not certain that he was born in 1473 – 500 years earlier than me; so I’ve not planned to include him, though he’ll be mentioned in other stories. (Many key 16C figures have unknown birth years).
Tonight, I am choosing two related women who also have Suffolk in common. Instead of being born there like Henry VIII’s advisor, one of our women of the hour died there, and the other had there her finest hour. It was the one who died and is buried in Suffolk’s birthday, yesterday; and in June, it is the 490th anniversary of her death. The other’s finest hour came 480 years ago.
Before we meet this pair, who share a name, let us open in prayer
We may see many parallels with Tudor times and now: wars, greed, disease, world changes and forced up prices. We don’t have to accept, especially the last (see this article and know there are organisations such as Don’t Pay)
Tonight’s service is called A Queen and A Duchess, referring to our first lady who held those titles in that order. Both tonight’s women were queens and both are called Mary Tudor.
I’d like to start with the elder and explain a confusion. I am firstly going to speak on Henry VIII’s youngest sister. Henry was one of four children of Henry VII: Arthur, who died young and is sometimes excluded from family trees; Henry, who married his widow and became the second king in the Tudor dynasty; Margaret, who married James IV of Scotland – the Johnny Depp lookalike, born on Friday [17th], killed in a massacre led by his wife’s sister in law – and Mary.
If you watched The Tudors TV show with Jonathan Rhys Meyers broadcast from 2007-10, you may remember that Henry had a sister, Margaret; but the show conflated the two sisters into one, named her Margaret to avoid confusion with our second lady tonight – her niece – but gave her the life of Mary. I am appalled by that – it insults our history and American audiences. So, to be clear: you were watching Mary but calling her Margaret.
Mary and Margaret were friends with Katherine of Aragon*, the Spanish princess passed between first and second brothers Tudor. They too understood what it was to be despatched abroad to bed some king and bear his children in the name of friendship between countries. Such marriages are a travesty of friendship. Women were sent to countries that were either rivals, or that you’d like to side with against your rivals. Margaret went north of the border; Katherine had come from overseas; and Mary was going to cross the channel to England’s nearest eastern neighbour. Margaret’s marriage (at 13!) had been arranged by their father, but Mary’s matching was by her brother. Somehow, such transactional engineering by same generation feels even worse. (*I wonder how the Aragon friendship fared after she widowed Margaret and wanted to parade the body of her husband? There’s a great story about the Margarets of James IV…for another time).
Much is made of the tale that Mary Tudor the sister firstly did a deal with that awful sibling: that she’d marry once for state, but should she be widowed – and her regal husband was an older man in poor health – she wished to choose another husband for herself. She was Queen of France and wife of Louis XII for three months, then married Henry’s best friend with whom it is said she was passionately in love. She wed Charles Brandon (another with an unknown birthday) in secret without her brother’s blessing, which was treason. The couple risked Henry’s wrath – the Henry who would execute two wives several friends and advisors (Wolsey would have likely suffered that fate had he not died on the way to the Tower), and up to 72,000 of his subjects.
I just learned this, from more than one source. His daughters each killed c300 people*, but hoary hearty Hal took the lives of the equivalent of a modern county town. In Henry’s time, 72,000 was the citizenship of London, Paris, and Norwich (then England’s second city) combined; so by today’s reckoning, Elizabeth and Mary executed a village each – still appalling – but their father killed about 15 million, or three English regions, or cities like Edinburgh, Liverpool and Bristol each year of his reign. I shall remind you of this fact throughout the year, especially in January.
So it was a risk for Charles and Mary to have displeased Henry. I am angry that it should be the king’s business and right to stipulate his family’s spouse (thus controlling their bloodlines as well as bodies) and worse, for it to possibly be a capital offence. Henry created many of those with his various acts, including one which stated that calling him a tyrant (absolutely true) was treasonable, as was the title of heretic. This again illustrates that law often isn’t about justice.
Charles and Mary survived the king’s wrath unscathed; they were fined, briefly shut out, to be re-received later. They risked wrath again by voicing their disapproval of Henry’s relationship with Anne Boleyn. Elizabeth Barton, the Nun of Kent, had done so and been horribly, publicly killed. The Holy Maid lived at St Sepulchre’s nunnery in Canterbury. I see her as a kind of English Joan of Arc, a century later – a visionary virgin who also spoke out against English rule and authority, and who commanded quite a following. The main difference between Ms Barton and the Brandons was that the Kentish Nun predicted Henry’s imminent death and loss of crown. Also, Charles was Henry’s perhaps only lifelong friend whom he held in special regard; without being married to him, would Henry have killed his own sister?
I understand that the Brandons’ married life wasn’t quite happily ever after: Charles was a brute to women; he quickly got married for a 4th time after Mary died – to his 14 year old ward. Charles Brandon was one of the new kind of noble, when the old aristocracy of birthright and lineage was replaced…not by meritocracy, only insofar as pleasing the king gave you merit. Henry busily destroyed the old kind of peerage who could claim his throne better than he. Brandon was created one of three dukes of England – that of Suffolk, hence he and Mary had a home there.
Charles and Mary’s old home
Westhorpe Hall
I visited the village in which they lived – Westhorpe, in mid-north Suffolk. Its village sign depicts the Tudor rose. Their vast mansion was replaced and is now a nursing home, but there is a public footpath nearby from which you can view the bridge and moat. As a queen, Mary was buried at the Abbey of St Edmundsbury (which we met in November), but when her brother dissolved it, her body was moved to one of the large churches on the site – appropriately St Mary’s. Her tomb by the high altar is not the fat one, but surprisingly modest. There is information and the same picture of her husband and her that Westhorpe uses on its current campaign for its church bells.
St Mary’s Bury St Edmunds
Mary Tudor’s grave at Bury
I’m appalled to learn of the connection of the French Queen and that church. (Not all of her is at Bury)
Mary took back sovereignty when she directed her own fate and defied her brother, but I have not found more that’s inspirational about her – have I missed something? Let me know.
I will have a spiritual perspective on aspects of this story in our second half: how should a good leader handle threats and opposition? And about a new world and means to favour and boon.
[Brief pause]
In speaking of history this year, I’m often going to think about How Do We Know? I’ll rarely give a source unless I’m quoting an original thought, although I’ve done much research. I’m interested in secondary sources – what is said to be true – rather than trusting primary ones. I also believe that we can just know, intuitively. Does that make sense to any of you? I know it flies in the face of academia’s obsession with empirical evidence, but that is much of my ongoing theme too.
———
Let us meet our second lady of the night, Mary Tudor the younger.
Queen Mary I really was the first, because she ruled England indisputably, alone, not as consort.
(Empress Maud and Lady Jane Grey – queen for only 9 days – were contested). Being queen in your own right was unusual in Europe then, although aunt Margaret and her daughter in law Marie de Guise were regents in the same era North of the Border.
Who’s your Mary? Is it a portrait, or do you picture her in your mind from a book – which? Is it an actress? My first Mary I was played by the comedian Kathy Burke – famous for her sketch with Harry Enfield as Waynetta Slob – in the 1998 Elizabeth, for many years my favourite film. Kathy’s Mary is pathetic in all senses, vicious, crazed, unloved, and dying, though she won’t see it. Mary has important East Anglian connections, including with where I grew up; knowing about her infamous deed as a child – when Katherine of Aragon’s only living child was yet faceless – helped cement my early view of Mary as an adult, when I began my interest in history.
I watched a video compilation of ninety years of Mary on screen. It included every depiction I knew of, and some others. I believe several if not all showed Mary’s appearances in their entirety; yet the video was under half an hour. That’s quite shocking; that Mary, our first queen, with many adventures, part of a popular family, has not only – to my knowledge – never got her own show (or play), but I don’t know of a popular book just on her either. Anne Boleyn wasn’t queen for long either, but she has, several times. Her very short lived rival cousin got a movie to herself. So what does it say that Mary is always a small role – the unwanted recalcitrant child made to swear against her conscience and own interest, and the antagonist at the start of Elizabeth’s story?
I feel that there is much richer material for a sermon from Henry VIII’s eldest child. I’m hoping to sketch out a spiritual story, a development, throughout this year. I’m seeing that how the monarch behaved and was behaved towards tells us about their god. It is often not the one with a capital G.
The Tudors are seen as the start of the Modern Era which ended the long mediaeval period, and the catalysts for a watershed for England, especially regarding monarchy and belief. You could compare it to a new testament – indeed I have already seen a parallel, but the renaissance wasn’t about God offering a novel covenant with his people – this is about changes to worldly ruling. Mary’s father’s new way regarding politics and peers wasn’t a progression – only for those it benefited. Thus it felt much like the old system in essence, re-booting the Norman practice of giving titles and possessions as prizes for serving the controversial king. Henry’s new religion was really the old one repackaged. Yes there was some whitewashing, in more than one sense, but the real change was who had power on Earth. Mary was willing to share her ultimate power with a foreign leader, which her father and siblings were not, and took such drastic action to stop papal influence. What was the Pope’s real threat?
Mary was about the Old Way, and not just in religion. Unlike others, I’m not analysing political acumen – I know some claim hers was acute, with many achievements. I’m alarmed at what is seen as success, even and especially by modern historians.
I’ve tried to understand Mary I from a Catholic point of view. Has she been misunderstood – perhaps even wilfully? She is known by her epithet “Bloody” – a description that doesn’t fit since she often burned. Yet she was far less bloody than her father, the same or less as her sister and brother. I watched a German documentary on Netflix about Mary’s rough contemporary, Ivan IV of Russia. He is usually known as ‘The Terrible’. I noted some links with his Russia and Tudor England – bloodthirsty tyrants expanding their empire whilst presiding over great change.
In this documentary, criminologists profile Ivan… what would they make of the Tudors? Yes, I see them all rightly as criminals. Feeding on fear is pertinent, and not just to past despotic sadists.
This may answer my year long question: what really is wrong with the Vatican? (Then and now).
I learned that Ivan’s ‘surname’ came centuries later, and the graphic illustrated accounts of his evils could well be propaganda as much as the mid 20th C government sponsored pro Ivan film by famous Russian director Eisenstein. I’d like to point out that it’s not only our Eastern rivals who are capable of propaganda, and I think that there’s much about the Tudors – yes, even still.
So – did Mary truly earn her sobriquet? It’s said that Foxe’s Book of Martyrs, a Protestant account dating from early in Elizabeth’s reign – also graphically illustrated and with emotive language – was and still is highly influential in making it. I wonder if this statement isn’t counter propaganda.
I acknowledge Mary’s long years of abandonment and loneliness, and her courage to remain Catholic… but no-one denies that Mary burned people alive til they weren’t for having a different faith to hers.
I do wonder if passionate belief – of any sort – is being demonised by our contemporaries.
In my research over Lent, I’ve been saddened and maddened by how difficult really finding out about people’s faith is. Historians often seem to undermine faith. They celebrate and analyse good leadership, which usually means cunning and violence. I’ve heard it stated that religious tolerance would have been anathema in the 16th C, but I’ve heard a quote only 50 years after Mary’s time about wanting open belief and worship for all. Was that Baptist leader of the early 17th century so far ahead, or did the world start to change drastically in a lifetime? For many, allowing the freedom to speak and practice for those who do not agree with you did not come for more than a century: for some, it has still not arrived. We may supposed to be multicultural now but this can manifest as diluting faith in the name of not privileging one. A small but important example: a Scottish university refused to mark the Easter holiday because it wasn’t fair to other faiths, who were quite happy for the extra days’ rest. Religious didactism has become non-assertion. The single view, crushing all dissent, is around other narratives now, as we’ve seen in the last three years: internet censorship of views that the establishment don’t want voiced, whilst the media rarely deviate from the scripts given them, because instead of being critical, they are bought.
So Mary’s world is not so far from our own. We have seen imprisonment (enforced quarantine) of those who refused to recant under the excuse of security and health. The Tudors too claimed that their regime was about protection, of the realm, of our souls. This seemed to be what Mary thought.
The fear of Hell – yes, with a capital H – was vital for the church. Much income and compliance had been made possible with the doctrine. Hell was also intrinsic to the already extant punishment for unacceptable belief. It was apparently thought that burning purged and gave a foretaste of the everlasting torment in store if ‘heretics’ [which means choosers]didn’t recant.
Mary and others must have seen themselves as some kind of avuncular faith guardians steering their subjects away from error. The fact that people lived in terror of torture and death didn’t seem to strike her as an abusive way to parent her grown subjects. Like much authority, such a stance infantilises, because it says that your ‘subjects’ are incapable of making their own faith and moral choices, so you must choose for them and aggressively shepherd the strays.
We may wonder whatever kind of faith, what kind of God, what kind of leader can be worthy and good if this is how it/they operates?
I asked earlier: what does a good leader do when you are threatened? How might Henry have reacted to the Nun of Kent’s prophecies, other than kill her? Would our leaders still do that? Striking out – ie, incarceration, inflicting pain and death – seems to be seen as strength, whereas inaction, like forgiveness, is weakness, and weakness is risky to one’s power. I see Roman values still permeating. I note the roundels of Caesar on at least one of Henry’s palaces.
Yet what did Jesus teach about forgiveness and retaliation? Who submitted to earthly power and abuse to subvert and overcome it? For the supposed head of the church, and a well educated man, Henry doesn’t really seem to get the God he stands in for – nor does Mary.
What else might Mary I done regarding her cousin, Lady Jane Grey? She could have given up the throne; gone abroad, as she was urged to do; she could she have divided the country, or done a deal with the Catholic Maries of Scotland (who may have instructed her in multiplicity of faith). Mary I chose to fight, and after demurring, kill those who kept her throne warm. What else might she have done with Jane and her husband Guildford Dudley? We might understand (but not condone) the death of the father John Dudley, 1st duke of Northumberland, if he was the mastermind (politically, he was the obvious enemy, being a prominent protestant during her brother’s reign). It parallels Elizabeth’s dilemma with another Mary – Stuart. What do you do with a woman on your turf who also claims your throne? In both cases, capitulate to the corrupt, spiritual imagos of men around you.
In the 1936 film Tudor Rose, Jane asks Mary, on hearing she ‘must’ die: Why build greatness on the graves of others?
Can I point out that Mary and Jane both had fair claims to England’s throne, as did those battling on Bosworth field. It can easily be argued that no Tudor had the strongest suit, and that they were usurpers – hence the propaganda against their rivals to hide this.
Tudor monarchs thought themselves as having divine right to rule, and by extension, vicars of the divine – no wonder that they railed against the pope, who caries the title of Christ’s vicar. These royals’ god has, like that of Exodus, no others before me, forgetting that unlike the true God, as a ruler, you are not unique. You are fallible and mortal, and recallable. Security of the realm was an excuse to fight for personal honour. Did we need a single, unified ruler?
What was missing from the new national church which Mary I and others so missed? What for them made it the true faith? What was the importance of Rome for them…and for Catholics now.
And if you are Catholic, for you? I’d love for you to tell me.
I am nonconformist and ecumenical, and thus open. And I’m starting to see something…
A last point before a pair of rounding off tales. In the 1998 Elizabeth, Kathy Burke (Mary) says to Cate Blanchett (Elizabeth): Do not take from the people the consolation of the Blessed Virgin, their holy mother.
From my earlier faith, I understand why such a sentence was wrong, even offensive to a protestant. Now I see that sentence as truth. Do not take from the people the Divine Feminine. She really is Holy Mother – not this Mary, born in 1516, and not her younger half sister who, in the same film is advised, looking at a Marian statue, “They have found nothing to replace her”. Elizabeth can’t replace Mother Mary, nor her Son; I don’t recognise either in the Tudors. But there is something about Mary – the Blessed one – that Mary Tudor truly had seen. She went badly wrong in how she shared that vision, but perhaps she did try to point to the divine feminine.
I think that Elizabeth pointed away from it, but it’s notable that it’s the 420th anniversary of her death on Friday, 24th March – and thus the end of the Tudor dynasty. We’ll think more about what that means in September, and ultimately, January.
Mary’s fine moment was at Framlingham castle with her supporters rallying. Last time I was at Fram, I enjoyed peeking over the parapet, imagining being afraid for my life, and seeing that affirmation is at hand. Two thousand people have come – for me! One writer said that Mary successfully took on central government, and she defeated the man who stopped rebels taking on their local government 11 years before [Kett, mentioned in last Sept’s service].
There is a local tradition that Mary was travelling, pre-queendom, to her supporters at Kenninghall in Norfolk and an ambush was averted by a local yeoman. She acknowledged his service to her that day. But a few years on, she had him burned at the stake as a protestant. It is said in the village that crops do not grow on that field, to this day. I accept that, for I think just as our bodies hold trauma, so do places.
I believe in, and encourage, healing sites of violence. Has their been an atrocity near you, or somewhere you visit? I also encourage not revelling in the gory woodcuts, or their celluloid or pixillated equivalent, which gives further energy to those sites of horror, but prayer, meditation; honour those who suffered, but replace that energy with something entirely opposite. We can do it alone and silently, or even from afar, with an intention, perhaps with a photo of the place.
I believe this work to be important in clearing negative energy and healing the Earth.
So to close tonight, I want to reiterate and affirm freedom of speech and belief, not a world where your livelihood, even life depends on our recanting or converting to please someone else’s ideology; one where we point the way, but do not force; where our greatness and personal sovereignty is not illustrated by our brutality and ruthlessness. It is not a far off world, but one that is being birthed, and very much in reach.
Thank you for joining me tonight, and blessings to you
Do reach out to me, Elspeth, on betweenthestools@hotmail.co.uk
My weekly written Lenten reflections continue. Our next services are at EASTER:
Maundy Thursday 6th April 930pm BST Watchnight with Jesus and Anne Boleyn
Spend 40 mins contemplating reflectively on the eve of their deaths – with hope
No Good Friday this year – my 7 Sayings is online (2 versions – with and without words inbetween the music)
Easter Sunday 8pm BST service “Esther Not Jezebel” which will be Tudor themed
After that, we meet on May 7th. And Lady Jane will be back with others in our July service
Hope to see you again, and good night!